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Author Topic: Windsavers - how do I find the right size? How about the glue?  (Read 2676 times)

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Gembirdie

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Hi everybody!

I'm close to putting my grandmother's harmonica back together. But since it was so old, and I had to clean it so much, I took off the remaining windsavers at the same time I cleaned the reed plates for the third time - half of them were going anyway.

I ordered Hohner replacement windsavers and watched their instruction video on youtube to see how to install them. Alas for me, they say to choose the windsaver of the same length than the one you're replacing. Well, mine are long gone. That harmonica has 12 holes, but there are 14 Hohner windsaver lengths in the replacement pack.
So, how do I decide which length is for which hole? Most harmonicas use windsavers only for the lower 10 holes, don't they? And do I use the same length for both sides of the reed plate?

I'm planning to use Gorilla glue, a superglue that gives you 30 seconds of working time before it grips. Do you think that's adequate?

Thanks for all your help - I think the restoration is coming along nicely...

Gembirdie

Offline Gnarly He Man

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Re: Windsavers - how do I find the right size? How about the glue?
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2012, 08:59:15 PM »
Gorilla Glue is overkill, avoid it.
Nail polish works, I have been using SuperGlue gel lately.
Pliobond is probably the default--and Hohner sells glue too.
Get the windsavers and attach them, then you can cut them to size--I like to use the scissors on a Swiss Army knife . . .
There are lots of YouTube videos that will make it easier for you!

Offline jimgrant

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Re: Windsavers - how do I find the right size? How about the glue?
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2012, 06:18:39 AM »
I've used gel superglue and found that it seems to get brittle after a while. Anyone else had this? I only use a tube of Pliobond now. It works fine for me and dries pretty quickly. I also stole a pair of my wife's embroidery scissors; they have really fine tips and are great for trimming windsavers.

Offline kc_liaw

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Re: Windsavers - how do I find the right size? How about the glue?
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2012, 06:25:42 AM »
i use water base elmers glue.. ..and it works fine.. . .

kc
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 06:37:15 AM by kc_liaw »

Gembirdie

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Re: Windsavers - how do I find the right size? How about the glue?
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2012, 06:58:46 AM »
I've never heard of Pliobond.
From what I can see on the internet, it seems to be a glue that stays flexible when dry. I wonder if it is the same type of glue than Duco Cement. Duco Cement has a pungent odor (from acetone and isopropanol), looks like a clear gel, and has a tendency to pull long "threads" when you use it. It says that you have to use acetone to clean it from fingers etc. It also says that it's ok to use on phenolic plastics, but not on polystyrene plastics.

Could somebody compare that with their tube of Pliobond? Does it sound like the same to you?

Thanks
Gembirdie

Offline vcleynes

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Re: Windsavers - how do I find the right size? How about the glue?
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2012, 11:32:48 AM »
I start with no. 4 and I use all-purpose cement in black and yellow tube which starts to gel after 5 minutes, just enough time to finish one face of reeds plate.  It's hard to hold the valves so I use a hair puller to pick up and position the valve then press and align it with tip of very small screwdriver.

Offline Gnarly He Man

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Re: Windsavers - how do I find the right size? How about the glue?
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2012, 12:11:22 PM »
so I use a hair puller
Tweezers? That's what I use.

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Re: Windsavers - how do I find the right size? How about the glue?
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2012, 09:45:48 PM »
FWTW Pliobond is the recommended glue in the new Hohner DTY You Tube series
Best Regards, Fred

Offline Gnarly He Man

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Re: Windsavers - how do I find the right size? How about the glue?
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2012, 12:05:06 AM »
When I saw Michael Timler at SPAH, I asked him about Superglue, as he had recommended that for his High End Windsafers (that's how he spelt it). He told me the valves were not Teflon (I could have sworn that was what he advertised them as) but he didn't say not to use Superglue.
But he was putting valves on with the Hohner tube of Pliobond, go figure. I was thrilled to talk to him.

Offline vcleynes

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Re: Windsavers - how do I find the right size? How about the glue?
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2012, 12:51:04 AM »
Tweezers? That's what I use.

Senior moment!  "hair puller" is the first to come to mind. Thanks, Gnarly.

Offline streetlegal

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Re: Windsavers - how do I find the right size? How about the glue?
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2012, 01:52:52 AM »
No-one else using double-sided tape? 8)

Offline kc_liaw

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Re: Windsavers - how do I find the right size? How about the glue?
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2012, 02:49:22 AM »
No-one else using double-sided tape? 8)

is good material.. but too small to cut.. too messy to handle... i guess..

KC

Offline streetlegal

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Re: Windsavers - how do I find the right size? How about the glue?
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2012, 03:15:41 AM »
I find the tape much easier and less messy than glue. Of course you need the right tape and it needs to be used in the right way to work well.

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Re: Windsavers - how do I find the right size? How about the glue?
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2012, 04:23:53 AM »
I've tried many glues, pastes and cyanos and I find this the best so far: "multi-purpose cement" in yellow and black tube produced by Hankel Corporation of Rocky Hill CT.  It comes out of the tube like a white icing of a cake -  does not flow, stays up but very loose.  Gels like a gum after 5 miinutes and hardens clear in an hour.  It's is very convenient to take the right amount from a droppings and apply it on the reeds plate with a toothpick, although it does not hold tight the valve right away, but allows movement of the valve, even when it had already gelled.  And even after several days you can scrape the valve off clean because it dries like rubber unlike the cyanos and other paste and glues that dries like stone.

Gembirdie

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Re: Windsavers - how do I find the right size? How about the glue?
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2012, 07:38:24 AM »
Oh, interesting, vcleynes.
I can see the advantages of a glue that you can clean off easily without having to scrape it off with a blade.
Is it the one that I found at http://www.simplytheben.com, after a search for "cement"?
Where did you buy it?

Offline vcleynes

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Re: Windsavers - how do I find the right size? How about the glue?
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2012, 10:26:01 AM »
Oh, interesting, vcleynes.
I can see the advantages of a glue that you can clean off easily without having to scrape it off with a blade.
Is it the one that I found at http://www.simplytheben.com, after a search for "cement"?
Where did you buy it?

That's it, here is the link:
http://www.google.com/search?q=multi-purpose+cement&hl=en&client=safari&tbo=u&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=n2U2UIWzOMPb0QG5hYDYDA&ved=0CG4QsAQ&biw=1024&bih=672#biv=i|0;d|Bj2KHfy22t6rSM:

Bought it from Lowes? or walmart.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 12:39:00 PM by vcleynes »

Offline Gnarly He Man

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Re: Windsavers - how do I find the right size? How about the glue?
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2012, 12:28:55 PM »
I will check it out--Superglue works well, but nice to have options.
G

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Re: Windsavers - how do I find the right size? How about the glue?
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2012, 02:51:18 PM »
KC Liaw wrote "i use water base elmers glue.. ..and it works find.. . . "

kc

I once used a water-based glue on my windsavers and half way through a number I found that I blew out a couple of windsavers and then had one stick on the back of my throat from a draw note. I stopped using that stuff immediately. I am a wet player though. KC probably isn't.

Offline Philos

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Re: Windsavers - how do I find the right size? How about the glue?
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2012, 02:48:51 AM »
I've read quite a few times lately about the benefits of using beeswax or a floor paste/polish around the slot on the reedplates so the windsavers don't stick. I haven't tried this but I intend to do this when I eventually get around to replacing lots of windsavers. Which is best? Beeswax or the floor polish?

Nuther question... When you do it do you apply the wax only to the portion of the reedplates in contact with the valves or are you more liberal? How do you do it? Any tips would be much appreciated.

I just wondered if in fact the wax is applied to the windsaver itself? Is that such a silly idea?

Thanks in advance.... Phil

Ohh good topic BTW. It's inspiring me to do some maintenance...:)
« Last Edit: August 24, 2012, 03:10:54 AM by Philos »

Offline Grizzly

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Re: Windsavers - how do I find the right size? How about the glue?
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2012, 05:37:50 AM »
Never heard of anyone putting wax on the windsaver. They have a rough or dimpled surface that you wouldn't want to clog up with wax.

Tom
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Re: Windsavers - how do I find the right size? How about the glue?
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2012, 06:53:05 AM »
I haven't tried waxing the reeds plate, but I understand the purpose is to prevent moisture from lingering around the area where the windsaver touches the reeds plate.   I usually remove the old windsavers when doing maintenance so I  will try running a candle stick along the windsaver slot.  Hopefully, this should have same effect as applying beeswax.

Offline kc_liaw

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Re: Windsavers - how do I find the right size? How about the glue?
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2012, 06:44:23 AM »
KC Liaw wrote "i use water base elmers glue.. ..and it works fine.. . . "

kc

I once used a water-based glue on my windsavers and half way through a number I found that I blew out a couple of windsavers and then had one stick on the back of my throat from a draw note. I stopped using that stuff immediately. I am a wet player though. KC probably isn't.

haaa.. ha... i always hv some elmurs glue put into a small container.. then open the cap for some time so tat these elmers glue will dry (not too wet) .. so when i apply.. i don't hv to wait for long time... .. and once it is harden up.. it won't blow off into your throat..
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 06:47:14 AM by kc_liaw »

Offline Sean

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Re: Windsavers - how do I find the right size? How about the glue?
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2012, 06:50:26 AM »
Use floor wax, not beeswax.  Only in the general area where the windsaver contacts the reed plate. Keep it away from the reeds.  Vern, who pioneered the technique, has posted some detailed instructions on other threads.  Try searching "Johnson wax Vern" and I imagine you'll find the instructions.
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Re: Windsavers - how do I find the right size? How about the glue?
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2012, 10:44:18 AM »
And for goodness sake, only a little bit of wax--no globs.

Gembirdie

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Re: Windsavers - how do I find the right size? How about the glue?
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2012, 01:09:38 PM »
Ok, I bought vcleynes multi-purpose cement at walmart to have a look at it. It looks and smells very similar to Elmer's white glue. IMHO, it's the same thing.

I'm hesitant to use it, because I know from experience that white glue, even when it's dry, can take up moisture again and "swell", until it detaches itself from whatever it's supposed to stick on. No wonder JimGrant got it stuck in this throat on a draw note.

So I think I'm going to use the Duco Cement that stays flexible when dry, but is waterproof.

Thanks everybody!

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Re: Windsavers - how do I find the right size? How about the glue?
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2012, 05:59:33 PM »
Ok, I bought vcleynes multi-purpose cement at walmart to have a look at it. It looks and smells very similar to Elmer's white glue. IMHO, it's the same thing.

I'm hesitant to use it, because I know from experience that white glue, even when it's dry, can take up moisture again and "swell", until it detaches itself from whatever it's supposed to stick on. No wonder JimGrant got it stuck in this throat on a draw note.

So I think I'm going to use the Duco Cement that stays flexible when dry, but is waterproof.

Thanks everybody!

Test it first and judge for yourself.

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Re: Windsavers - how do I find the right size? How about the glue?
« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2012, 09:02:26 PM »
Glue: I vote for nail polish. The drying time is not too long and not too short.  Each bottle comes with a brush that you use to apply it.   Very small bottle for your took kit.

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Re: Windsavers - how do I find the right size? How about the glue?
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2012, 11:03:46 AM »
Nail polish, clear works for me.

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Re: Windsavers - how do I find the right size? How about the glue?
« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2012, 04:46:56 PM »
Do NOT use beeswax, paraffin, candle wax or other soft wax.  Use Johnson's paste floor wax or an auto body carnauba wax that  polishes to a hard, thin, coating.  If you can see any wax when you are finished, you have used too much.

Touch the waxed and unwaxed areas with a wet toothpick.  You will be able to see how the water sticks to the unwaxed surface and not to the waxed surface.

I use G-S Hypo glue from MicroMark.  The glue works well and the little needle dispenser can put a tiny drop just where you want it without wasting a bit.

Vern

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Re: Windsavers - how do I find the right size? How about the glue?
« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2012, 06:43:11 PM »
Order the valves from the Hohner Shop online and you get a "bunch " of each size precut. No muss. No fuss. and I vote for clear nail polish as glue.
Best Regards, Fred