Variations on the 'orchestra' layout

[streetlegal]

I was thinking how the 'orchestra' layout might be applied to other keys than C. For instance, a chromatic starting at hole one on Eb - but laid out in the Bb scale. This got me thinking about how many adjustments would need to be made to retune an Eb chromatic to a Bb 'orchestra' - perhaps also eliminating duplicate pitches along the way. I think this would be my favourite playing scale - I'm used to it as I play it on my English concertina.

[roady43]

Orchestra layout applied to other keys than C.
Perfect idea! I'm sure it's as fine as any solo tuned harmonica in keys other than C. I'd go for the bebop layout...
Best is to try to get original reeds or just the correctly layouted reedplates from Seydel or Hohner. Retuning existing reeds IMO is only a solution when everything else is impossible (i.e. not existing anywhere!).
You can design the layout with the Seydel Configurator online (so you will see how many "adjustments" from "standard" will be necessary): choose automatically (Solo Bb) and afterwards correct all reeds down by 7 semitones: Bb=>Eb, C=>F, B=>E etc...

http://harpconfigurator.seydel1847.de/druck.asp?be=20120526174355_77747283&locale=en_US&layout=en

Hope I made no mistakes and understood correctly what you meant...
roady43

[streetlegal]

Yes roady - many thanks for that chart

If I was going for a Bb 'orchestra' layout then it would be straightforward Bb solo layout, but starting with hole one on Eb.

But when I was thinking about converting an Eb solo tuned harp to Bb orchestra, I then began thinking about eliminating the duplicate pitches which would remain from the Eb solo scale - as illustrated in the configurator chart which you provided.

This makes things rather more complicated because the tuning of the harp would then be in the Bb scale - but not Bb solo layout. This would be something different. I will need to sit with a pen and paper and work it out - if indeed such a layout can be worked out...

[roady43]

Sorry, I realize I just made a simple "modulation" and forgot to that all has to stay in the key of Bb.
But still should be easy to be done with the configurator; then compare...

roady43

[pmelissakis]

Hi

Make it Bb bebop

Pete

[streetlegal]

I think I have worked out a Bb 'orchestra' layout which will work - it's kind of like sudoku working these patterns out.

Anyway I couldn't get it to work starting with Eb, but starting on F works out ok - F is to Bb what G is to C - if you get my meaning. So here is the repeating pattern.

F#  Bb  B    Eb
F    A    Bb  D
G   Bb  C    Eb
Ab  B   C#  E

It differs from an F solo tuned harp in that all eight reeds on holes three and four need to be tuned down. I suppose this is a form of a diminished tuning system. Hole 1 blow is F3 and hole 12 blow is D6. This gives, I think, a better Bb playing range than a Bb solo tuned harp. The Bb scale is very straightforward  - no double draw as with solo tuning - and no side by side duplicate pitches.

[roady43]

Well done!
Yes, you can't start with Eb in first hole (for Bb key). When I realized this, I had no time any more yesterday to figure it out in detail. The point is to calculate the layout from which hole you want to start with Bb. I love the challenge.

roady43

[streetlegal]

Yes roady - to start on Eb with this pattern would provide an Ab 'orchestra' layout. Indeed the pattern will work ok to produce this layout in any key. Just select the playing key of choice as hole 3 blow. Then put the fifth note of that scale in hole 1.

For instance someone who plays a lot of Irish music might like an 'orchestra' D. In that case hole 1 would be A, as the fifth of the D major scale. I haven't tried a 'flat' slide option yet - might be interesting to see how that would work out...

[streetlegal]

I've just worked out the 'flat slide' repeating pattern for this 'orchestra' Bb layout, so here it is - again starting with Blow F and Draw G.

E    Ab   A    C#
F    A     Bb  D
G    Bb  C    Eb
F#  A    B    D

I can feel myself being drawn towards the flat slide option.

[streetlegal]

Because I am used to playing a 16 hole Chromatic I am now thinking of applying this Bb flat slide tuning to a 16 hole. So in that case the repeating pattern would be as follows with hole 1 blow starting on D.

C# E   Ab  A 
D    F   A    Bb
Eb  G   Bb  C
D    F# A    B

This layout provides Bb blow on holes 4, 8, 12 and 16. Quite a major retune is involved here on 16 hole reedplates,  but for Bb nuts like me, it might be worth the effort. This could be the one I will eventually settle on...