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Author Topic: half valving super 64?  (Read 1172 times)

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Offline Cx-12 (Micker)

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half valving super 64?
« on: January 05, 2012, 09:11:19 PM »
I've heard stuff before about not half valving harps like the 270's. Does this apply to harps like the super 64? Although maybe it depends on the gaps of the reeds, but what other ways can a pretty noobish customizer like myself make it more airtight?

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Offline Gnarly He Man

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Re: half valving super 64?
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2012, 11:12:58 PM »
I don't like half valving--I like the valved bends and vibrato on a chromatic.
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Offline Al Kai

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Re: half valving super 64?
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2012, 05:49:27 PM »
I play 270's primarily as they are my favorite Chromatic, I love the Hohner sound.
I can literally feel the 270 vibrate in my hands as I play, unreal.
However I find that  270's are not good half valved.

I also play one SC and two SCX Suzuki Chromatic's. 
These Chromatic's are so air tight.  I have my SCX Chromatic's half valved and they sound great.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 05:54:26 PM by Al Kai »

Offline smojoe

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Re: half valving super 64?
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2012, 06:51:29 PM »

Here's my feeling. They pay thousands of engineers billions of dollars/euros/sterling/yuan/yen/tszloty/sheckels over the years to design stuff. Then someone comes along and decides to alter the design. I'm not saying don't do it. All I'm saying is...why? is it better? what do 'I' gain. I'm being self serving here. My reasoning would have to be because it benefits me. It's all about me. I would like to hear a reason for taking valves off. It seems that every time I do that, something doesn't sound right.

smo-joe   (love the Hohner sound..love the vibrations..also play Herings..because they are loud)

Offline Al Kai

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Re: half valving super 64?
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2012, 07:19:00 PM »

Here's my feeling. They pay thousands of engineers billions of dollars/euros/sterling/yuan/yen/tszloty/sheckels over the years to design stuff. Then someone comes along and decides to alter the design. I'm not saying don't do it. All I'm saying is...why? is it better? what do 'I' gain. I'm being self serving here. My reasoning would have to be because it benefits me. It's all about me. I would like to hear a reason for taking valves off. It seems that every time I do that, something doesn't sound right.

smo-joe   (love the Hohner sound..love the vibrations..also play Herings..because they are loud)


The reason I half valve is to avoid wind saver valve problems.
I don't do this on all Chromatic's, just the ones I wanna play with no warm up.


Offline Al Kai

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Re: half valving super 64?
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2012, 07:23:17 PM »

Here's my feeling. They pay thousands of engineers billions of dollars/euros/sterling/yuan/yen/tszloty/sheckels over the years to design stuff. Then someone comes along and decides to alter the design. I'm not saying don't do it. All I'm saying is...why? is it better? what do 'I' gain. I'm being self serving here. My reasoning would have to be because it benefits me. It's all about me. I would like to hear a reason for taking valves off. It seems that every time I do that, something doesn't sound right.

smo-joe   (love the Hohner sound..love the vibrations..also play Herings..because they are loud)


The reason I half valve is to avoid wind saver valve problems.
I don't do this on all Chromatic's, just the ones I wanna play with no warm up.

Half valving also allows the reed to bend more freely.

Most Chromatic's suffer tremendously sound wise but my Suzuki's are built so well and airtight that they can be half valved.  This is just my experience with this concept.

Offline smojoe

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Re: half valving super 64?
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2012, 07:38:56 PM »

This is good news Al Kai, I think I may have to try the newer Suzuki. They must be tight enough. I haven't had on in years. Thanx moocho mucho.

smo-j

Offline Al Kai

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Re: half valving super 64?
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2012, 08:27:25 PM »

This is good news Al Kai, I think I may have to try the newer Suzuki. They must be tight enough. I haven't had on in years. Thanx moocho mucho.

smo-j

The reeds are not as responsive as your'e Hering's but you might like it.

Offline Grizzly

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Re: half valving super 64?
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2012, 05:58:07 AM »
Suggestion: rip only one valve off and try it. It might save you the effort of reapplying several valves if you don't like it.

I bought an unvalved or half-valved (can't remember) SCX 56 from a fellow member, and hated it. I returned it, and bought a new one. I was playing it last night, with no valve problems whatever. Suzuki valves are better than Hohner, IMO.

Tom
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Offline Gnarly He Man

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Re: half valving super 64?
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2012, 09:07:10 AM »
The new Hohner valves seems to be pretty good.
At the end of the day it's all 24-7

Offline Grizzly

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Re: half valving super 64?
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2012, 09:16:48 AM »
The new Hohner valves seems to be pretty good.
I'll reserve judgment on them until I give my Tenor a bath. They stick like mad right now.

Tom
Famous I don't know about. It's hard to be famous and alive. I just want to play music every day and hear someone say, 'Thanks, that was great, here's some money, same time tomorrow, okay?' -- Terry Pratchett, Soul Music

Offline Gnarly He Man

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Re: half valving super 64?
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2012, 09:24:02 AM »
I bought a bunch from Hohner and have been using them on all my repairs--
I am of the opinion that if we could keep the chrom warm while playing, all most valve problems would go away.
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Offline Grizzly

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Re: half valving super 64?
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2012, 09:43:05 AM »
Even warmed. (Maybe not enough. :()

T
Famous I don't know about. It's hard to be famous and alive. I just want to play music every day and hear someone say, 'Thanks, that was great, here's some money, same time tomorrow, okay?' -- Terry Pratchett, Soul Music

Offline Jimmy Halfnote

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Re: half valving super 64?
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2012, 10:28:43 AM »

This is good news Al Kai, I think I may have to try the newer Suzuki. They must be tight enough. I haven't had on in years. Thanx moocho mucho.

smo-j


 Well if it helps Smo -Joe i have just taken delivery of two high end Suziki models, admittedly second hand about three years old , but that is not my issue. Let's take the Fabulous, a flagship for the company and very expensive, the plates are not individually screwed down, but screwed together, so fiddly for maintenance , and terrible for lining up to the comb when re-assembling, what makes it worse , the plates don't reach the bottom or ends of the comb, i tried three different ways to re-assemble got three different results ( one of which was lining up to fixed MP) , also the screws protrude about quarter an inch looks awful, the spring on this one was pushing out against the plate, the odd screw in the vicinity wasn't strong enough to keep th plate flat, i made a retainer for the pivot. Now the windsavers, these are standard Suzuki i presume, a very short spring about a third of the valve length ? Well you can keep them, the ones on the long slots curl up the spring is too short, and boy are they noisy, but they may be better when new, i don't know, but the valve noise was picked up easily when recording. The ones on the Slider i also bought were even noisier, ( same jobs ), yet seemed to be laying perfectly, so what is causing all the 'whispering' , it comes over kinda 'lispy ' sounding when recording.
              The Slider also has covers with sharp edges, and they are thinner gauge metal than my L.A. 16, more or less the same design, except the Slider MP extends an inch past each end hole, i found myself trying to get a note from solid metal on the first and last holes ( puckerer)  ;D.
 You will get used to this however, but maybe a problem when quickly switching harmonicas, the mouthpiece itself is lovely, the sound is a bit 'lighter' and 'airier' ( not air loss) than a Hohner super64, that may suit some ( keeping Smo-Joe in mind), nice sound, but it seems that model is being discontinued anyway, would any of the two have been worth the price when new ?  For me not on your Nelly, i have a 270 from Michael Timler acrylic comb, plates and covers individually screwed, better quality screws than the Suzuki, and a heck of a lot cheaper. The Chrome finish of the Suzuki's , also seems a bit 'sparkly' and shallow to me, not much different from a cheapish Leghorn ( my only previous Suzuki ) that i owned many years ago, except the Leghorn had better windsavers  ! ?

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Offline chromaddict

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Re: half valving super 64?
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2012, 03:24:13 PM »
I would not recommend the Super 64 for half valving.  You may get some benefit from half valving holes 8, 9, & 10, but you are likely to have undesirable results on the bottom end.

My suggestions for half valving are the CX-12 and the G-48, or the Sirius models. 

In order to get the full benefit from half valving (dual reed bends on all the draw notes), you have to use a tuning like augmented or diminished.

Also it will take some time to develop a good tone on a half valved instrument.




 

Diminished tuning all the time!  Sirius (G dim), G48s (Bb dim, C dim, & C# dim), CX-12 (Ab dim), 260

Offline Al Kai

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Re: half valving super 64?
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2012, 05:07:36 PM »
The new Hohner valves seems to be pretty good.

Yes, I just bought a new 270 with the new valves, they are very good.

Offline Gnarly He Man

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Re: half valving super 64?
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2012, 07:32:17 PM »
Even warmed. (Maybe not enough. :()

T
Yeah, what I am proposing is keeping the harp warm while you play it.
Stay tuned.
At the end of the day it's all 24-7