Windsavers--best bang for the buck?

[Gnarly He Man]

Hi--
I am running out of my Harponline HighEnd Windsafers, and will have to spend some cash (or the plastic equivalent) if I intend to keep revalving harps for myself and others.
There are some choices out there, but wonder what others think are the best bargain--cost versus performance, factoring in ease of installation?
Here's what I have tried:
Romel self stick Mylar/micropore--20c each
Harponline Teflon--no longer available
Suzuki stock windsavers--who sells these?
Danny G's one piece--here's his page   http://www.newharmonica.com/shopping/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=252
Teflon (black--from baking sheet)--I still have mine, use it for cooking in the microwave
Old Hohner (not Teflon)

[mikesmics]

I have found that since I had Danny's one-piecers installed in my MK, no warm-up is required.

[drfrancov]

I like the Romel valves. Easy to put on and don't stick much.

[robertpcoble]

I'm partial to three different windsavers. Please keep in mind that I haven't tried all of the ones that Gary mentioned above.

I really like the Romel self-adhesive windsavers for quick, on-the-go repairs. Under the tutelage and watchful eye of Bill Price at the 2011 Virginia Harmonica Fest, I replaced several windsavers using them. Simply peel off the backing, stick down in place, snip off the excess at the free end and PLAY! I have had no feedback regarding them, but (perhaps) no news is good news.

I also really like the "Vern Smith Valves" which are sold by Danny G at New Harmonica. See them here:

http://www.newharmonica.com/shopping/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=233

These valves are made of ultrasuede, are compressed along half the length (to provide stiffness) and are waterproofed. Vern is one of the resident SlideMeister experts on all things mechanical and also the inventor of the Hands-Free Chromatic, now being manufactured by Chris Reynolds, "Builder of Stuff". Vern designed these valves but is not involved with the manufacturing and sale (AFAIK). I put a set of them on my Seydel Chromatic Deluxe. I also waxed the reed plates, per Vern's instructions. The combination of those valves and waxing gave me a chromatic that has not had any problem with sticking valves. I can pick it up and play it cold without a problem, and I'm a "wet" player. I "discovered" that using a 1/8inch stirring straw which has been flattened on one end makes putting these valves on and in place very easy to do. I used Vern's recommended adhesive, G-S Hypo Cement. It takes a very small dot of glue to hold the windsaver in place, and it dries quickly.

I have not outfitted a chromatic totally with Danny G's newest windsavers, but I do have a set of them. I got them to try half-valving on a diabolical harp. They work fine, so I'm sure they will work fine on a chromatic. The only drawback (if it is a drawback) is that the recommended contact cement requires a 24-hour drying time. I'm not sure if a faster drying cement can be used. There is a cautionary note in the instructions to NOT use cyanoacrylate based fast-acting adhesives (Super Glue) because it will "melt" the material used. (Uncharacteristically, I haven't tried it for myself.) These valves come in various thicknesses, so you will have to experiment to determine which thickness is best for you.

Regardless of the windsaver, I think Vern's suggestion of waxing the reed plate should also be used. The combination of "new age" windsavers with reed plate waxing will greatly reduce, if not totally eliminate your windsaver problems. I bought one can of Johnson's Floor Paste Wax, which is a lifetime supply. I use a non-shredding cotton makeup applicator to put on the wax, and then buff it until it shines. It really takes a minute quantity of wax per reed. Just make sure to not glob it on and get it in the reed slot. (You knew THAT already!)

Regards,
Crazy Bob

 

[Gnarly He Man]

Yes, I have started waxing reedplates too--it's a "finishing touch" that will pay off in the long run--just did it on a customer's refurb of an SCX-64.
I use the left hand pinky to apply, as it is very well trained--guitar player, you know--and has no nail (OK, it's trimmed down really close--ibid).
Just ordered a set of the (new?) Hohner valves, Bill Bucco says it's $22 for a set, 4-6 of each valve, up to 14 (for a 16 hole instrument).
AND NINE BUCKS FOR SHIPPING 

[robertpcoble]

<SNIP>
Just ordered a set of the (new?) Hohner valves, Bill Bucco says it's $22 for a set, 4-6 of each valve, up to 14 (for a 16 hole instrument).
AND NINE BUCKS FOR SHIPPING 

I think that the "shipping" cost may also include a VERY small "handling" charge. I just got 4 reeds from Hohner ($2.00 each), with a shipping charge of $5.00; $13.00 total. That $5.00 covered the bubble-wrap, the mailing package, plus USPS postage of $1.08, and the time spent by a Hohner employee to select the right reeds for the specific harmonica, get a mailer, package the reeds in bubble-wrap, address the mailer (by hand), and mail it.  Assuming minimum wage ($7.25 per hour) which is not likely, time spent on the phone taking the order (5-10 minutes), time spent calling me back to confirm my credit card number (3-5 minutes), time spent gathering the reeds from the bins and packaging them into the mailer, bubble-wrap plus mailer ($1.00?), USPS postage ($1.08)-hmmm, that $5.00 seems pretty cheap to me! The Hohner people have always been very helpful and customer friendly.

As an alternative for buying a set of Hohner valves, consider Seydel replacement valves. They are supposed to be useable on other manufacturers harmonicas, without warranty (of course).

For the Chromatic Standard and Deluxe:
http://www.seydel1847.de/epages/Seydel.sf/secBDmSHWDIFWA/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Seydel/Products/51480300

Product blurb:
Product number 51480300
Valveset Chromatic DeLuxe 12_48
Valve Set with 6 valves per lengths (12 different lengths = 72 valves)
To be used with other brands too (without warranty!
Price: $13.95/set

For the Saxony Chromatic / Fanfare-S
http://www.seydel1847.de/epages/Seydel.sf/secBDmSHWDIFWA/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Seydel/Products/52480300

Product blurb:
Product number 52480300
6 pieces per channel/length
Price: $33.95 / piece(s)

The product blurb for the Saxony states: "Reliable valving - new windsaver material" so I'm ASSUMING that this is the reason for the higher price for the Saxony valves.

Likewise, all of the Seydel people have always been super-helpful, whether in Germany or in the USA.

HTH,
Crazy Bob

[Gnarly He Man]

I am looking forward to examining the Hohner valves to see if they are the new material--
If not, I am thinking the high end Seydel valves are my next investment.

[pmelissakis]

I would rather have all valves as one size and cut them
to length as required.  Wouldn't want to end up paying
for a bunch of left over short ones that can't be stretched
to fit the more problematic longer reed slots.

Unless someone knows of a valve stretching tool.

Pete   

[Gnarly He Man]

Right, I find that I use the valves for holes 1-5 the most.
Must be the notes I use!

[Atsuko]

I would rather have all valves as one size and cut them
to length as required.  Wouldn't want to end up paying
for a bunch of left over short ones that can't be stretched
to fit the more problematic longer reed slots.

Unless someone knows of a valve stretching tool.

Pete   

Ha ha ha . Worth to wait for a new invention from Vern ....  and Pete, nice to cross the path again 

It is true that I also have many shorter ones left when everything else was used up a few years ago. However, as far as cost is concerned, I think Hohner charges differently on shorter ones and longer ones.  (Order of a set, Hohner normally throw in lots of extra shorter ones.)   Anyways, for those shortest ones I'm still using not only on hole #13, but on #14, 15, 16 (inside only) to minimize leakage at higher end.

On most other holes on my Super64, I now use expensive valves exclusively made for NC64; they are very good but I need to cut into pieces myself and very weak in heat.  I've totally damaged once washing in hot water (Honer valves are very durable in hot water) and again last night when my harp was accidentally (??) left in a heat pad 

Atsuko 

[Jinxter]

Does anyone know where I can get good quality valves in the UK?  I've only just started playing so hopefully won't need them too soon but eventually the dreaded day will come.

I've been looking for a UK supplier but can only find one! They can supply the Honers but I was hoping to find the Teflon or suede.

If there are no suppliers near me does anyone know if Danny G Will post to the UK? His website is down at the moment.

I don't know if this matters but I'm using an SCX-56.

[Jimmy Halfnote]

Hello Jinxter , i am sure Danny will supply to the U.K., because he has supplied me in Ireland. I fully understand your frustration not finding a source in the U. K., but you could contact Seydel direct, give them your requirements, and see how it goes.
 
                                                                        jh.       

[Jinxter]

Thanks Jimmy;

Found some valves on the Seydel site but no mention of materials.  As I'm not in any rush at present I'll wait for Danny's site to go live again and see if they can help.

Can't believe we don't have a supplier in the UK or Ireland!

Cheers!

[Danny G]

Hi Jinxter
Send me an email and I'll tell you about the valves I carry and for your information, I don't charge shipping fees for small quantities of valves sent anywhere in the world.
dannyg@newharmonica.com

[Jinxter]

Thanks Danny;

That's great.  I'll Email you later, I'm at work right now. 
 Might be 24hrs or so. Thanks again.

[Vern]

IMO, poor valve performance in traditional chromatic harmonicas has been the most important usage problem.  A sticking/popping valve can be a distraction that spoils a performance or a practice session.

I applaud the contributors to this thread.  A community of technicians and players actively experimenting and reporting on new materials and procedures will eventually converge on the best solution.  Although I have strong preferences, they may not turn out to be the winners.  Eventually, the manufacturers will start paying attention.  e.g. Seydel is cooperating to offer P.T. Gazell's Ultrasuede valves.

I applaud Danny G. for making new designs available for a product which cannot be high-profit.  It shows his dedication to serving the harmonica community.  He deserves our support.

It is great to have more of you doing more than just complaining!

Vern

[Danny G]

God bless you Vern !

[Jinxter]

Danny, I'm not sure if you received my email, so I have sent you another.

In other news...
I have just learnt my second tune, "Cry me a River".

The weather has turned British summertime here, solid heavy rain for three days and cold. Need a hot water bottle for my chrom and dog refuses to go out for his walks (thank God).

Cheers!

[benfish]

I acted off this forum and ordered Mylar from Danny G. Got the valves within a week! Danny sent them off before I had paid, bless him.  I paid using PayPal.
I have not finished my project yet but the one or two valves I have done sound OK.
Thanks Danny G

[Danny G]

Benfish,
No matter who manufacturers the harmonica, Mylar is what original equipment valves are made of, that's why the original valves require a second layer that acts like a spring to make them lay flat.
The valves I sent you are flexible but they consistently return to lay flat and they don't require a second layer because the material they're made of will never curl unless you intentionally make it curl.
The only complaints I've had about these valves or the CWU valves Vern introduced have been from people who simply did not follow directions when they installed them.

[reeds64]

Jinxter,

You wrote:
" Need a hot water bottle for my chrom and dog refuses to go out for his walks." 
There's your built in solution for cold harmonicas: Keep them under the dog.