SlideMeister.com The Chromatic Oasis - "We're all chromatic, all the time"

Support SlideMeister

Author Topic: Rock on! chromatic harmonica  (Read 3502 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Gnarly He Man

  • AKA Gary
  • V.I.P
  • MonsterMeister
  • *
  • Posts: 7,162
  • Keep Your Finger on the Button
Re: Rock on! chromatic harmonica
« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2011, 02:53:03 PM »
Umm humm . . .
And the preeminent rock chromatic harmonica player is . . .
 ???
They sell lots of records and fill large arenas world wide.
Which chromatic player does ? 
Why, that would be Stevie Wonder, probably the most successful chromatic harmonica player in the world.
And how does he do it? By making harmonica only part of what he presents--
He's a singer, keyboardist, songwriter, entertainer, producer . . .
Most folks don't know about the button, even tho he talks about it.
Where is the rock equivalent of Stevie?
At the end of the day it's all 24-7

Offline Jimmy Halfnote

  • CHARTER MEMBER
  • Chrome-Meister
  • *
  • Posts: 2,392
Re: Rock on! chromatic harmonica
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2011, 03:42:04 PM »
 I don't think Stevie Wonder fills stadiums JUST on his Chromatic playing , i don't get your point anyway, you seem to be arguing with yourself, the point of this thread was to highlight the lack of participation in the Rock genre, which is also what you are saying ( i think).
                I only brought up the subject of Rock music, because it seemed to receive so little attention by Chromatic harmonica players, and i couldn't even find it in the Slidemeister Jon-rahs section, despite it being in the mainstream for over 50 years.

             So what are you saying Gary ?                                 jh.

Offline Danny G

  • Happiness is a New Harmonica
  • CHARTER MEMBER
  • Chrome-Meister
  • *
  • Posts: 2,011
  • Danny G
    • New Harmonica
Re: Rock on! chromatic harmonica
« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2011, 03:48:21 PM »
Gary
My point is that if you're going play an instrument, you should play because you enjoy playing and you should play whatever kind of music that makes you happy.
I hope I'm wrong, but I'd be willing to bet that regardless of genre, playing altered tunings won't get you a stadium full of people either, but so what ?
I think most musicians play because they love playing and have day jobs because they have to.
http://tinyurl.com/NewHarmonicaVideos - http:/www.newharmonica.com

Offline Gnarly He Man

  • AKA Gary
  • V.I.P
  • MonsterMeister
  • *
  • Posts: 7,162
  • Keep Your Finger on the Button
Re: Rock on! chromatic harmonica
« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2011, 04:02:34 PM »
             So what are you saying Gary ?                                 jh.
 I don't think Stevie Wonder fills stadiums JUST on his Chromatic playing
Yes, I said that.
Quote
i don't get your point anyway, you seem to be arguing with yourself, the point of this thread was to highlight the lack of participation in the Rock genre, which is also what you are saying ( i think).
Yes I am also saying that.
Quote
I only brought up the subject of Rock music, because it seemed to receive so little attention by Chromatic harmonica players, and i couldn't even find it in the Slidemeister Jon-rahs section, despite it being in the mainstream for over 50 years.
And I think that's because Rock music does not lend itself to the chromatic harmonica, or, to put it a different way, the melodies of Rock music are not harmonically sophisticated enough to make chromatic harmonica interesting.
And I said that before too--that's pretty much what I am saying.
Furthermore,  chromatic harmonica doesn't fit into the instrumentation associated with rock.
I'm not talking about Steely Dan or Paul Simon--I'm talking about Rock music.
At the end of the day it's all 24-7

Offline Grizzly

  • MonsterMeister
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,165
  • aka Tom
    • Transcriptions
Re: Rock on! chromatic harmonica
« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2011, 04:04:42 PM »
Here's some historical background on rock music. Wikipedia can sometimes be a little nose-in-the-air, and not everyone will agree with every part of the article, but it's a broad overview.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_music

The point I want to make echoes Danny's. We play what we like. Further, there are selections in any genre that will fit the unique qualities of chromatic harmonica. They may not be stereotypical or iconic, but that's what makes them accessible to us. I've been searching for classical music to transcribe, and reject most of them because they're too much into the demands and abilities of the original instruments - in my case, mostly piano. The same can be said of rock music: accessible, melodious tunes, with interesting chord progressions and engaging rhythms, surely can be found among the many kinds of rock defined in that article. The tunes may be a little out of the mainstream, but that may be exactly what will make it suitable for chromatic harmonica.

Tom
Famous I don't know about. It's hard to be famous and alive. I just want to play music every day and hear someone say, 'Thanks, that was great, here's some money, same time tomorrow, okay?' -- Terry Pratchett, Soul Music

Offline Gnarly He Man

  • AKA Gary
  • V.I.P
  • MonsterMeister
  • *
  • Posts: 7,162
  • Keep Your Finger on the Button
Re: Rock on! chromatic harmonica
« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2011, 04:05:26 PM »
Gary
My point is that if you're going play an instrument, you should play because you enjoy playing and you should play whatever kind of music that makes you happy.
I hope I'm wrong, but I'd be willing to bet that regardless of genre, playing altered tunings won't get you a stadium full of people either, but so what ?
I think most musicians play because they love playing and have day jobs because they have to.
I agree with all that.
I also am interested in promoting Chromatic Harmonica (not that it's my musical strength, just that I think it's worth carrying a torch for).
So I am going to play the kind of music that shows the strengths of the Chrom--
Hey, rock on, all you heavy metal chrom players--how's about some video action?
At the end of the day it's all 24-7

Offline Gnarly He Man

  • AKA Gary
  • V.I.P
  • MonsterMeister
  • *
  • Posts: 7,162
  • Keep Your Finger on the Button
Re: Rock on! chromatic harmonica
« Reply #36 on: July 29, 2011, 04:07:45 PM »
I'm not bragging, but I have an advantage over some of you--I play electric guitar.
Now you're talking rock.
Nothing personal, rock yourself silly, but I am pretty familiar with the genre.
Again, I am happy to hear what some of you may have to contribute to the genre. As Ross Perot would say, "I'm all ears."
« Last Edit: July 30, 2011, 10:08:00 AM by Gnarly He Man »
At the end of the day it's all 24-7

Offline Gnarly He Man

  • AKA Gary
  • V.I.P
  • MonsterMeister
  • *
  • Posts: 7,162
  • Keep Your Finger on the Button
Re: Rock on! chromatic harmonica
« Reply #37 on: July 29, 2011, 04:13:38 PM »
Nice article on Wiki, BTW.
At the end of the day it's all 24-7

Offline Grizzly

  • MonsterMeister
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,165
  • aka Tom
    • Transcriptions
Re: Rock on! chromatic harmonica
« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2011, 04:18:46 PM »
Electric guitar, electric bass and drums. The iconic combination. Still important 50 years later.

For better or for worse, it didn't stay that way. To steal a title from the Great American Songbook, "Anything Goes." If Moody Blues used flute, and it was used by Taj Mahal (though it didn't front everything they played), why not chromatic harmonica?

Tom

I see Wiki says Taj is a blues musician, and it doesn't list flute as one of his instruments. Faulty memory.

T

Memory updated: Ian Anderson, with Jethro Tull. One of my colleagues had met Anderson, and tried to get him interested in our flutes.

T
« Last Edit: July 29, 2011, 04:27:17 PM by Grizzly »
Famous I don't know about. It's hard to be famous and alive. I just want to play music every day and hear someone say, 'Thanks, that was great, here's some money, same time tomorrow, okay?' -- Terry Pratchett, Soul Music

triggerfinger

  • Guest
Re: Rock on! chromatic harmonica
« Reply #39 on: July 29, 2011, 04:46:01 PM »
A whole lot of rock has very simple melodies. They are often highly stylized melodies using only a few notes. The nuances of the human voice carries these melodies. The point being is that they would not sound particularly compelling on any instrument.

So, if rock was going to be played on a chromatic then what role would the chromatic then take?

If I was going to play rock covers I think I would go minimalist - bass with very small drum kit - and play material that fits the three piece trio genre where chrom substitutes for guitar. Getting good at bends would and a lot of musical nuance.

If I was going to do my own thing I think I would still go minimalist but stretch the boundaries of the rock genre.

Offline A.J.Fedor

  • SlideMeister Owner
  • Administrator
  • MonsterMeister
  • *
  • Posts: 10,801
  • The "Old SlideMeister"
    • A.J.Fedor
Re: Rock on! chromatic harmonica
« Reply #40 on: July 29, 2011, 06:06:24 PM »
You have admit that today's Rock, while not making a complete departure, has evolved tremendously. Since the Beatles started breaking the molds back in the sixties, Rock music has all but abandoned its 1 - 4 - 5 roots, and much of today's Rock melody lines are so much more sophisticated than, let's say "WipeOut"  ;) they probably deserve a second look. Whaddyathinque?

Wipeout?? Ooooooo! That was so bad, it's embarrassing to admit I yoosta play it on my guitar.  :-[
The greatest satisfaction, is laying a firm foundation with the bricks others have thrown at you.

Offline Gnarly He Man

  • AKA Gary
  • V.I.P
  • MonsterMeister
  • *
  • Posts: 7,162
  • Keep Your Finger on the Button
Re: Rock on! chromatic harmonica
« Reply #41 on: July 29, 2011, 08:09:11 PM »
At the end of the day it's all 24-7

Offline Grizzly

  • MonsterMeister
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,165
  • aka Tom
    • Transcriptions
Re: Rock on! chromatic harmonica
« Reply #42 on: July 29, 2011, 08:18:05 PM »
Hey is this rock?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfewatCK8Jo
Do you want it to be?

Remember, one man's fish is another's poisson.

Was that improv I heard?

Tom
Famous I don't know about. It's hard to be famous and alive. I just want to play music every day and hear someone say, 'Thanks, that was great, here's some money, same time tomorrow, okay?' -- Terry Pratchett, Soul Music

Offline Gnarly He Man

  • AKA Gary
  • V.I.P
  • MonsterMeister
  • *
  • Posts: 7,162
  • Keep Your Finger on the Button
Re: Rock on! chromatic harmonica
« Reply #43 on: July 29, 2011, 08:33:02 PM »
That is cutting-edge jazz -- cutting-edge music, really -- to me, but I think Bill Barett's solo would fit into any rock context.  That was awesome  ;D  Gnarly, do you know if he was using electronics of some kind?  Sounded like it to me.  
I'll ask him when I see him--he's supposed to give me lessons when he gets home from Europe.
Steuart is definitely doing the rock bass thing (channelling his inner Jack Bruce)  :D
And they're his tunes . . .
At the end of the day it's all 24-7

Offline mikesmics

  • Chrome-Minator
  • ***
  • Posts: 859
    • Mike's Mics
Re: Rock on! chromatic harmonica
« Reply #44 on: July 29, 2011, 08:45:16 PM »

You have admit that today's Rock, while not making a complete departure, has evolved tremendously... Whaddyathinque?



Today's rock?  ::)  Sorry Age.  They don't make rock music anymore.  They stopped in the mid 90"s and all the well known and famous rockers just vanished from the airwaves to be replaced by (insert "s" word here).  Sorry, but that's how I feel. Sure, you can here real rock on the radio today, but it's not new. And that's about the time when I turned to jazz, blues, new age, world, some very specific electronica, and... chromatic harmonica! ;D
Be Free... Be Politically Incorrect!

Offline A.J.Fedor

  • SlideMeister Owner
  • Administrator
  • MonsterMeister
  • *
  • Posts: 10,801
  • The "Old SlideMeister"
    • A.J.Fedor
Re: Rock on! chromatic harmonica
« Reply #45 on: July 29, 2011, 09:28:23 PM »
Hey is this rock?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfewatCK8Jo

Nope! That's Chernobyl jazz (or at least its tryin to be. :))
The greatest satisfaction, is laying a firm foundation with the bricks others have thrown at you.

Offline A.J.Fedor

  • SlideMeister Owner
  • Administrator
  • MonsterMeister
  • *
  • Posts: 10,801
  • The "Old SlideMeister"
    • A.J.Fedor
Re: Rock on! chromatic harmonica
« Reply #46 on: July 29, 2011, 09:35:11 PM »
You have admit that today's Rock, while not making a complete departure, has evolved tremendously... Whaddyathinque?

Today's rock?  ::)  Sorry Age.  They don't make rock music anymore.  They stopped in the mid 90"s and all the well known and famous rockers just vanished from the airwaves to be replaced by (insert "s" word here).  Sorry, but that's how I feel. Sure, you can here real rock on the radio today, but it's not new. And that's about the time when I turned to jazz, blues, new age, world, some very specific electronica, and... chromatic harmonica! ;D

For the most part, I agree, but they still call it "Rock." Just like today's "Country Western" music ain't the "Country Western" we grew up with either. Time marches on and stuff changes; sometimes its good, sometimes not, and we all get to decide for ourselves which!
The greatest satisfaction, is laying a firm foundation with the bricks others have thrown at you.

Offline mikesmics

  • Chrome-Minator
  • ***
  • Posts: 859
    • Mike's Mics
Re: Rock on! chromatic harmonica
« Reply #47 on: July 29, 2011, 09:46:22 PM »
You have admit that today's Rock, while not making a complete departure, has evolved tremendously... Whaddyathinque?

Today's rock?  ::)  Sorry Age.  They don't make rock music anymore.  They stopped in the mid 90"s and all the well known and famous rockers just vanished from the airwaves to be replaced by (insert "s" word here).  Sorry, but that's how I feel. Sure, you can here real rock on the radio today, but it's not new. And that's about the time when I turned to jazz, blues, new age, world, some very specific electronica, and... chromatic harmonica! ;D

For the most part, I agree, but they still call it "Rock." Just like today's "Country Western" music ain't the "Country Western" we grew up with either. Time marches on and stuff changes; sometimes its good, sometimes not, and we all get to decide for ourselves which!


Very true.  Today's country is simply another sub-genre of pop music, nothing more.  Rock, Pop, it's all linguistics.  And maybe just a little marketing?
Be Free... Be Politically Incorrect!

Offline Danny G

  • Happiness is a New Harmonica
  • CHARTER MEMBER
  • Chrome-Meister
  • *
  • Posts: 2,011
  • Danny G
    • New Harmonica
Re: Rock on! chromatic harmonica
« Reply #48 on: July 30, 2011, 08:00:27 AM »
Gary's right, playing rock tunes on the chromatic isn't the same thing as Rock. The same can be said for playing Jazz songs on the chromatic, isn't the same thing as playing Jazz, etc..

Arthur Fiedler and The Boston Pops played and recorded The Beatles songs in 1964, (it was (is) a great album) Substituting strings for electric guitars and adding pizzicato strings, etc., the power of a full symphony orchestra added another dimension to the music but in reality, it was rock songs arranged and played by an orchestra, not Rock. I think they tagged it "Novelty" music. Well, like it or not, playing the harmonica is still widely considered a novelty. In my mind novelty equates to uniqueness and is one of the charms that endears me to the chromatic.

Bottom line, "It's Your Thing, Do What You Want To Do",  it's still rock and roll to me.
http://tinyurl.com/NewHarmonicaVideos - http:/www.newharmonica.com

Offline Grizzly

  • MonsterMeister
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,165
  • aka Tom
    • Transcriptions
Re: Rock on! chromatic harmonica
« Reply #49 on: July 30, 2011, 08:33:46 AM »
quote author=Grizzly link=topic=5624.msg66176#msg66176 date=1311995885]
Remember, one man's fish is another's poisson.

Nice.  I hear Grizzlies like poisson  :D

Scat-singing fish - Salmon-Ella :P

Tom
« Last Edit: July 30, 2011, 08:37:01 AM by Grizzly »
Famous I don't know about. It's hard to be famous and alive. I just want to play music every day and hear someone say, 'Thanks, that was great, here's some money, same time tomorrow, okay?' -- Terry Pratchett, Soul Music

Offline Gnarly He Man

  • AKA Gary
  • V.I.P
  • MonsterMeister
  • *
  • Posts: 7,162
  • Keep Your Finger on the Button
Re: Rock on! chromatic harmonica
« Reply #50 on: July 30, 2011, 09:03:15 AM »
Gary's right, playing rock tunes on the chromatic isn't the same thing as Rock. The same can be said for playing Jazz songs on the chromatic, isn't the same thing as playing Jazz, etc..
I have to disagree.
Please remember, I didn't plan on being a chromatic harmonica maniac (which some might claim I have become). It started innocently enough, the occasional diatonic harmonica solo on the blues in C (since the high pitched F was easy to bend).
But once I was asked to play harmonica in a band (Jackstraws, 1992, San Diego Zoo), I started giving it more attention--and that ultimately led to the only logical solution to short harp's shortcomings, the chromatic harmonica.
Chrom is close enough in timbre to substitute for a variety of wind instruments--clarinet, sax, flute--by virtue of its tonal characteristics. So artists working in that genre can make it work--like all the great chrom players I could name here who are currently selling CDs and touring.
It doesn't have the kind of sound to work in the rhythm section.
And as far as the genre of Rock, which I consider to be something different than *-rock (folk-rock, jazz-rock, alternative rock, more hyphenated rock), melody is not the star. And as far as I know, there is no artist playing rock music currently selling CDs and touring.

That is why I believe that the kinds of music that will let the chrom shine are those in which melody is the king.
And standards fit that description. And I play standards . . . not exclusively, by any means, but more now that I play chrom  :D

Knowing that rock and roll (different than Rock) came up from rhythm and blues and hillbilly music, there's more of a place for chrom there.
Let's hear the chromatic version of Wild Thing--which Hendrix made his own, he even destroyed his guitar while playing it!
(The ocarina solo from the original should be easy to copy--but the Troggs' version is considerably less heavy than the Monterey Pop performance to which I refer).
« Last Edit: July 30, 2011, 09:13:09 AM by Gnarly He Man »
At the end of the day it's all 24-7

Offline Jimmy Halfnote

  • CHARTER MEMBER
  • Chrome-Meister
  • *
  • Posts: 2,392
Re: Rock on! chromatic harmonica
« Reply #51 on: July 30, 2011, 10:21:17 AM »
 W

Offline Bluesy

  • Comet Dye
  • BEST MUGSHOT WINNER 3-2013
  • Chrome-Meister
  • *
  • Posts: 1,647
  • We are what we believe we are. So chi sono.
Re: Rock on! chromatic harmonica
« Reply #52 on: July 30, 2011, 11:02:18 AM »
Hey is this rock?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfewatCK8Jo

Rock? I don't think so. What it is, is four guys playing something, with the drums much too loud and the bass almost so. On the other hand, those two features are the hallmark of rock, aren't they?
Does this mean that all I have to do to be a rock player (not in this life, Jim) is to crank up the amps for the drummer and the bass player irrespective of the type of music we are playing?

Comet Dye
Music is all.  Well . . . . nearly.

Offline Jimmy Halfnote

  • CHARTER MEMBER
  • Chrome-Meister
  • *
  • Posts: 2,392
Re: Rock on! chromatic harmonica
« Reply #53 on: July 30, 2011, 11:09:46 AM »
 Well Gary, i respect your opinion ( the keyboard jumped on me again), but to me it is ALL Rock, whether rockabilly, or modern alternate rock, or rock musicals, but it is just MY opinion, not a fact. As all the sub-genres of rock seem to evolve from each other, where do you draw the line, there are bound to be crossovers, one man's rock is anothers tin pan alley, one man's rock is heavy metal, another man's could be glam rock. It really is no different from other genres, like Classical or Jazz or Country etc.
          For the purpose of this thread, i had in mind every sub - genre of ROCK, be it rockabilly or heavy metal, because the chromatic harmonica does not feature much IN ANY. If we go down the road of discussing , what is meant by ROCK, might as well start a new thread, i. e.  ' What does Rock mean to you '. Which in turn could boil down to the era , when a person was most receptive to rock music. With that in mind i suggest, that over the last 50 or so years, melody can be found , great songs suitable for the Chromatic can be found, the question for me would be, is it because the majority of Chromatic players are from an 'older generation', and their tastes have 'mellowed', that the Rock genre is more or less ignored ? Where they never interested in the genre ? Do chromatic players get influenced by what others are playing and stop being their own men? I would hate to think of the scenario, where a Chromatic player was requested to play say ' Yellow Brick Road' , and replied sorry , this instrument cannot play Rock..???

     The first million selling ROCK record, is believed to be by Fats Domino a piano player.

                                                                                 jh.

Offline Jimmy Halfnote

  • CHARTER MEMBER
  • Chrome-Meister
  • *
  • Posts: 2,392
Re: Rock on! chromatic harmonica
« Reply #54 on: July 30, 2011, 11:37:34 AM »
 This is a rock song by a rock artist , concerning a terminally ill relation, could any genre have done it better?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Op81rgQRwvo&feature=player_detailpage

                                                     jh.

Offline mikesmics

  • Chrome-Minator
  • ***
  • Posts: 859
    • Mike's Mics
Re: Rock on! chromatic harmonica
« Reply #55 on: July 30, 2011, 03:47:42 PM »
Seems to me that several rock bands have produced actual full out rock songs with full symphony backgrounds over the years.
Be Free... Be Politically Incorrect!