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Author Topic: Mouthpiece fix ona 260  (Read 946 times)

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Offline drfrancov

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Mouthpiece fix ona 260
« on: May 06, 2011, 07:26:42 AM »
So I finished working on my 2nd 260. Everything went well, but I have a lot of air leak on the mouthpiece. The prior one had some leak but I fixed that following Douglas Tate's Instructions (flattening the underside), I tried that on this one and it helped a little bit but no quite as much as I expected. I am considering using micropore tape to get a seal between the mouth piece and the top piece of the slide assembly, has any one tried that before? Any other suggestions?

Offline chromaticblues

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Re: Mouthpiece fix ona 260
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2011, 12:17:37 PM »
I wouldn't use micropore but instead use scotch tape. Also lightly coat it with vaseline!
If you haven't already. Remove the mouthpiece and sand the front of the comb and reedplates flat and sand the mouthpiece matting surface untill all the course machining marks are out.
That should help alot.

Offline Joe Piccirilli

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Re: Mouthpiece fix ona 260
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2011, 12:51:49 PM »
Most of the time a new comb made of plastic which is more stable then wood is the answer to most air leakage.
When all sides are machined flat and the reed plates are fasten with screws, things are pretty tight.the top edges that the slide and mouth piece is nice and flat and with the slight bow in the mouth piece there is no gaps for leakage. Also with at least 2 screws added to the top edge of the reed plates secures the reed plates snug on to the comb.
                                                  Joe Picc

Offline chromaticblues

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Re: Mouthpiece fix ona 260
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2011, 08:52:09 AM »
There is no garrantee plastic is flat! I've read that someone had problems with leakage on a CX 12 and sanded the front of the reedplate block and found it warped! So if it leaks air something is wrong!

Offline Bluesy

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Re: Mouthpiece fix ona 260
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2011, 11:06:44 AM »
Plastic combs are molded, or "cast" so to speak, and in low-cost mass-produced harmonicas are not further refined, so many fronts are not true and level. They need to be trued as described below. Even Suzuki's Sirius combs are cast, and I don't see any signs of work on the front after molding. (I assume they use better molds for a more expensive harmonica.)
As a matter of fact, unless the player slobbers into the harp, wood is just about as stable, if not more so, as plastic. Hohner uses pear wood for its wooden combs - a hardwood that doesn't swell or shrink much, and is probably a better choice than most plastics which swell and shrink with temperature change. I have and play a 260 that's at least 25 years old and the pearwood comb is still perfect, its varnish pristine. I recently sanded the front on a small piece of plate glass (5" X 8") that the local glass man made for me, which I use to adjust woodwind MPs and reeds, using 600 wetordry held flat with my hand. (Plate glass is precisely flat.)
An interesting fact about wood swelling is that it does not swell or shrink end-to-end but only across the grain. That's why carpenters' rules are made from hardwood and not plastic - they maintain their accuracy of length and plastics do not.
Gnarly always says that if you want to play harmonica you have to learn to tune them and change valves and stuff. Well, leveling the front of a comb is a lot easier than that stuff.

TomC/
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 11:19:15 AM by Bluesy »
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Offline Grizzly

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Re: Mouthpiece fix ona 260
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2011, 11:12:24 AM »
The front of my SCX 64's plastic comb was sanded at the factory. It serves as a built-in backplate for the slide.

Tom
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Offline rusty

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Re: Mouthpiece fix ona 260
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2011, 02:50:43 AM »
ref to wood vs plastic vs brass, I was a furniture maker and ran a restoration business for may years and have as a hobby worked on violin repairs as well.. Pear wood is fairly stable but like all woods will expand with moisture. Around 5% across the grain and 1% with the grain with pear wood. If you disregard humidity changes due to temperature wood is fairly stable. Brass is completely stable in terms of moisture but will expand and contract with temperature so much as to effect pitch. When attaching materials with dissimilar properties you get issues. Wood combs would crack very seldom if not held in place against the brass plates. Screws with oversize holes allow for the dissimilar materials to move in relation to each other and would avoid cracks in the wood combs. One more reason not to over torque your screws! Sealing a wood comb will slow down humidity changes in the wood but that's all. Most plastics that I have worked with (they very of course with Corian, a popular selection for combs an exception. It moves with temperature) are stable dimensionally but as the reed plates are not will also require adaption for the plates to move on the face of the comb by using screws. Precision mating surfaces on wood like were the comb and slide mechanism mate will require truing (to make flat) from time to time depending on use and storage conditions. Plastic and brass matting surfaces also may need to me trued from time to time due to wear on two piece slides systems. If you store and maintain a humidity level around 40 to 50% your wood combs will last longer, offer fewer issues. Composite materials as used on some Suzuki diatonic should offer a stable base but again your attaching an unstable (temperature) reedplate so screws with oversized holes should be considered. In terms of stability a brass comb such as on the Fabulous from Suzuki (brass with silver plating) with a brass reed plate will expand and contract at the same rate for all practical purposes
If I was going to make a custom mouth piece I would use Corian. It can be machined to tight tolerances and can be polished as it's very hard
« Last Edit: December 02, 2011, 03:14:49 AM by rusty »
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Offline roady43

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Re: Mouthpiece fix ona 260
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2011, 01:52:19 PM »
Violinist, playing augmented harmonica
Seydel DeLuxe G augmented
Self customized augmented Hohner 260, 270 stainless, Meisterklasse, Chrometta 8 & 10, CX 12 Jazz

Offline bloharp

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Re: Mouthpiece fix ona 260
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2011, 05:16:37 AM »
So I finished working on my 2nd 260. Everything went well, but I have a lot of air leak on the mouthpiece. The prior one had some leak but I fixed that following Douglas Tate's Instructions (flattening the underside), I tried that on this one and it helped a little bit but no quite as much as I expected. I am considering using micropore tape to get a seal between the mouth piece and the top piece of the slide assembly, has any one tried that before? Any other suggestions?

Being the 260 is the shortest of the chromes the chance of air leaks along the path of the mouthpiece should be minimal. Did you remove the spring and sand along the face of the comb to make it flush with reedplate? 400 grit sandpaper works good. I use to sand it smoother after using the 400 grit but found leaving a little "tooth" on the wood provided a better seal. It kinda acts like a gasket between the wood and metal if the flat plate backing is a little warped from being stamped.

Next did you look close to see if the U channel tabs are sitting properly in the slots. It's possible for the U channel to shift when screwing down putting it slightly out of alignment and creating air leaks.

Before doing all that take the mouthpiece off and check the alignment of the reedplates.  It's possible that the heel of one or more reeds is pinched under the wood partition. The reed plates can shift when being reattached or perhaps one of the partitions is warped enough to create a tiny airleak between the chambers.

This is why I wear 10x loupes and have a microscope in the shop. There is a whole other world our aging eyes need help seeing.

Mike
Mike E.

Offline chromaticblues

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Re: Mouthpiece fix ona 260
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2011, 01:52:29 PM »
Yes Bloharp makes a great point about magnifying glass. One thing I do that I haven't heard yet is I put 2 sided masking tape on the face after sanding. Seems to work well.