Author Topic: Honher 260 in key of C restoration - Cracked wood comb fix! (Read 2581 times)

drfrancov · « **on:** April 21, 2011, 11:58:07 PM »

So I got this 260 from eBay. Sadly the comb is cracked (badly: side to side), but otherwise in good condition. I was planning to use it for spare parts. Then I found new combs here:

http://www.harmonicarepair.com/Fathead_Musical_Instruments/NOS_Vintage_Parts.html

But then I found Dave Payne had 2 videos showing how to fix it:
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W51fK_8UmLU
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUa9WaJtWrM

I know a lots of folks here think that fixing a wood comb is just plain wrong and a waste of time and money. I read tons of post here saying that no matter how much you do, it will eventually crack again. But I believe everybody is entitled to an opinion! Even if they are all wrong!

I followed the process Dave describes. Only deviation is I did not use white glue, instead I used super glue. I will seal the comb anyways (I will probably try the salad bowl finish this time or maybe not). So far, I filled the crack with toothpicks I flattened used an Xacto knife. Reshaped the chamber and sanded the comb flat. I also removed the original finish and plan to paint it as described on my prior restoration.

I found a hairline crack in another chamber so I used thin superglue to fill it. A trick I learned in another life (basement home taught luthier)

So it is on!: restoration #2 on it's way!

Why 260s? cause I like them. I am no professional player so I can live with 2 octaves. Plus they sound good and are easy to carry around! Better sound, quality and air tightness than any modern plastic comb chinese made cheapo harp! (at least for the 15 bucks I paid for this one).

I know you guys swear by those "modern" and expensive ABS plastic comb harmonicas (CX12 anyone?) ...but I am just a small town tinkerer who likes wood working and harmonicas too much! It is just magical to see how much you can do with wood. Even on an old comb that has been mistreated for years, once you sand it and take care of it you see the magic again!... Last I checked all my guitars, ukuleles and recorders were still made out of wood! They just sound so beautiful!... As you all know, Everyone is entitled to an opinion...And this is mine!

.

BTW, I have my eye on a Hohner 280 I found at one of the local antique stores. Bad comb (repaired and possibly cracked)! But I might buy the comb for 20 bucks and end up with a perfectly playable harmonica modified to my own specifications for 50 bucks (270 on amazon new)...not too bad ah!

Bill Morris · « **Reply #1 on:** April 22, 2011, 04:58:25 AM »

Beware! Wood 280 combs are not as cheap as the 260 combs are. The last ones I bought were $45 plus shipping. You need to take that into account.

Bill

drfrancov · « **Reply #2 on:** April 22, 2011, 05:59:35 AM »

Bill,

You are absolutely right. I got a similar quote...i guess that project might have to wait for now!

Thanks

drfrancov · « **Reply #3 on:** April 22, 2011, 03:07:35 PM »

So I finished cleaning the harp today. Everything looks like new! No valves missing. And I don't think I have any of the valves need replacement. Just sealed the comb with the salad bowl finish. Smell was ok (I read a few posts saying the smell was bad). I will wait 6 hours and get a 2nd layer down after 0000 steel wool. Then wait 3 days for finish to harden. After that reassemble and voila! a new baby in the key of C!

Peace all!

Joe Piccirilli · « **Reply #4 on:** May 02, 2011, 04:40:54 PM »

new prototype harmonica- Joe Picc

Gnarly He Man · « **Reply #5 on:** May 02, 2011, 04:42:46 PM »

Looks great--how much?
G

Joe Piccirilli · « **Reply #6 on:** May 02, 2011, 04:49:16 PM »

Tell me what you want.Joe

Gnarly He Man · « **Reply #7 on:** May 02, 2011, 05:01:59 PM »

Oh good lord Joe, I have too many harmonicas.
Your work looks good, however . . .

Joe Piccirilli · « **Reply #8 on:** May 02, 2011, 05:13:48 PM »

$60 You install. Joe

kc_liaw · « **Reply #9 on:** May 02, 2011, 05:41:27 PM »

Quote from: drfrancov on April 21, 2011, 11:58:07 PM

I filled the crack with toothpicks I flattened used an Xacto knife.

as for me, i used BALSA wood, and it works perfect.

the glue ? i use polysterine, or Elmus glue. .. i think it is much more safer than super glue, am i wrong. ?

cheers

KC

drfrancov · « **Reply #10 on:** May 02, 2011, 05:59:11 PM »

I think you are right...but now the comb is sealed with 3 layers of waterproof food safe finish. so i don't think it will make any difference now!

kc_liaw · « **Reply #11 on:** May 03, 2011, 12:56:45 PM »

Quote from: drfrancov on May 02, 2011, 05:59:11 PM

I think you are right...but now the comb is sealed with 3 layers of waterproof food safe finish. so i don't think it will make any difference now!

for ME.. who doing restoration work.. .. i don't know if such called 'food safe' varnish is really safe.. most of the time i just leave it as it is... .. may be without such new coating is much safer.. . that is my wild guess.

cheers

KC

drfrancov · « **Reply #12 on:** May 03, 2011, 01:20:24 PM »

The problem is that unless you seal the comb, it will get wet and it will expand and contract over and over and eventually crack. If you water proof the comb, those chances decrease (but don't disappear). My research on the net points out to sealing or resealing wooden combs with beeswax, shellac or the salad bowl finish.

Just my 2 cents. I am learning as well, so any suggestions are appreciated!

kc_liaw · « **Reply #13 on:** May 03, 2011, 04:55:25 PM »

HAHHA... u r absolutely right.

but i m at tropical country where the humility is constantly high(80-110%). .. so the expansion on wood doesn't seems that critical.. . that y we can leave the wood un-vanish.

cheers.

drfrancov · « **Reply #14 on:** May 03, 2011, 05:59:07 PM »

Well my friend, you are right too! I live in the upper peninsula of Michigan. Humidity goes between less than 20% up to 60%. So all my guitars, ukuleles and other wooden instruments need to be appropriately humidified or they shift and crack. So I guess, maybe I should move the the tropics too!

kc_liaw · « **Reply #15 on:** May 03, 2011, 06:50:48 PM »

Quote from: drfrancov on May 03, 2011, 05:59:07 PM

Well my friend, you are right too! I live in the upper peninsula of Michigan. Humidity goes between less than 20% up to 60%. So all my guitars, ukuleles and other wooden instruments need to be appropriately humidified or they shift and crack. So I guess, maybe I should move the the tropics too!

yeh,.. yeh.. if u decide to shift down... then go to BALI island.. is a place where u will never feel out of place.. it is .. 'TROPICAL PARADISE' ... .. living cost is low.. and got plenty to offer.. personally i hv been there more the 12+ times...and still nvr get bored with it...

KC...

drfrancov · « **Reply #16 on:** May 03, 2011, 07:19:46 PM »

Sounds like the kind of place to be at!

RONNIE RIDDLE · « **Reply #17 on:** May 10, 2011, 05:41:24 PM »

I don't know if it is food safe but several years ago I applied polyurathane
to the wood comb of a 270. After 3 thin coats, I lapped the faces by putting a whole piece of fine grit wet or dry emery paper on a piece of window glass and flattened both faces trying not to cut back to bare wood and then applied more poly. One trick (used to do tool and gage work) is to wet the back of the emery paper with water and it will flatten and stay in place, for our purposes window glass is plenty flat enough.

Just picked it up and made some noise on it, still doing well after about 12 years. At the same time, the spring hole was breaking out. Used hot stuff glue to build it back and it is still doing well also.

ronnie riddle

bloharp · « **Reply #18 on:** May 12, 2011, 03:10:41 PM »

Quote from: Bill Morris on April 22, 2011, 04:58:25 AM

Beware! Wood 280 combs are not as cheap as the 260 combs are. The last ones I bought were $45 plus shipping. You need to take that into account.

Bill

You guys are funny in what you determine expensive or affordable when it comes to your axes and taking care of them.
You need to look at it from the dealer/tech's standpoint. We stay poor while sitting on the inventory you may eventually want to purchase.

Actually the cost is $55 (280 wood) and they are sealed and sanded before shipping. I no longer sell them unsealed. They were $55 in 1999, 2000, 2001,2002,2003,2004,2005,2006,2007,2008,2009,2010 and 2011. Better hurry up and get some, they go up to $55 in 2012.

In order for me to make them available I had to make a trek from PA. to Buffalo NY for part of the "lost" inventory then to Toronto Canada 2 years later for the rest at a cost of $5,750. That doesn't include interest on the loan to finance the purchases. The purchases included combs and other vintage parts, Some new, some used and too crappy to sell. Most parts have been the same price 12 years and counting. Labor may go up but parts have stayed pretty much the same unless I have to purchase new from Hohner. Almost forgot the Farrell auction. Another $600 for parts, another summer no vacation with the mrs.

Danny told me what sacrifices he made to get started in business. Big risk indeed. Give's full service before and after the sale. Don't know the interaction you'll get with an Amazon or ebay purchase or service after the sale. Some mfg's allow dealers to ship direct to the customer so no inventory is needed. They just pay a few extra $$ for the service. No overhead, no website. That's probably what you get with an ebay/Amazon sale.

Most of us techs, customizers, dealers, parts makers could sell on ebay or Amazon, but why? Our motivation is old school. Person to person contact. We like you asking questions, we like the fact that you can actually talk to the person making or servicing your product. Neither you or us are a # on a slip of paper. You are a name, a friend and someone you can contact for questions, advice and insight.

That's something you can take to the bank. :-)

btw, Bill, I'm not directing it at you personally, or anyone else. You've been a good customer. I just felt this was a good starting point to jump in.

mike

wolfman · « **Reply #19 on:** May 12, 2011, 03:25:01 PM »

HEAR HEAR WELL said Mike

chromaticblues · « **Reply #20 on:** November 28, 2011, 10:27:23 AM »

I have done this same repair a few times and it has worked perfect! I use the water proof tight bond Elmers glue.
I start taking out nails untill I can get the smallest broken section out (I have done this on a harp that was in three pieces and worked just as well). I put a little glue on the matting surfaces (both sides) and put it back in place then put the nails back in adjusting the pieces so they line up right. Then I put the coverplates back on and let it sit ove night.
Take the coverplates off, take mouth piece off and sand the front mouthpiece section with the reedplates on untill everything is flush. Then take the reedplates off and lightly sand top and bottom untill flat. I then spray it with poly. 2 coats on each side. 2 coats doesn't build it up it just barly seals it and thats all you need is moisture protection.

vcleynes · « **Reply #21 on:** January 20, 2012, 06:54:20 AM »

Why not try using clamps? See: http://oldmanharper.blogspot.com/2011/12/how-not-to-repair-cracked-comb.html

chromaticblues · « **Reply #22 on:** January 20, 2012, 09:26:11 AM »

Well I did it like that because it would dry exactly the way it will sit in the harp.
It worked perfect and was easy. The last comb was in three pieces and what better way to make sure it will line right than to let it dry between the reedplates with the covers on?
Yes I understand your question and I'm not saying you can't use clamps, but this works very well!

m.marino · « **Reply #23 on:** January 20, 2012, 11:13:00 AM »

I have to agree with Mike. While I produce product for more then just myself and clients coming directly to me, the cost of production is still there. Quality is much more important to me then quantity and making something or repairing something that will out live me is very enjoyable (also working on instruments that are very old). I don't know how Mike keeps the wood combs at $55 as the cost of quality wood has been going up over the year and tools need to be replaced or sharpened and the cost of electricity to mill the parts has been going up as well.

Now I enjoy my work and have enough work across the family of instruments and doing odd jobs here and there to keep it afloat. I had and will be having again the advantage of CNC equipment to do my cutting work which allows for very tight advance cutting that is harder with manual machines (not impossible just harder as you need specific equipment).

Now am I complaining, NO, as this is my choice and Mike's choice and we really do like helping you folks out and seeing our work played well by folks really trying to bring the best out of themselves and the instrument. It is a deeply satisfying experience to have ones work allow player to express themselves more, deeply satisfying.

So Please enjoy and when you need us to either teach you or work on your instruments, ask and we will be glad to in most cases.

Michael

chromaticblues · « **Reply #24 on:** January 20, 2012, 01:08:15 PM »

@ Ronnie Riddle I think Poly is perfectly safe as long as you don't chew on your harp.
It's not safe to ingest. So don't. Right!
Alot of people make to much out of food safe. No part of the poly ever touches your mouth on a chrom!
Even on a diatonic I think it's fine. Poly dries pretty hard.
I like useing the air cans. It's easy to use and dries fast.
After a couple days the smell is gone and it's ready to go back together.
@ The tech guys
My name is Kevin Baker and I too have a VERY modest customization biz called HooDoo harps. I do mostly diatonics, but do chroms also. I've actually done more chroms for myself than anyone else, but on the subject of expenses of the trade. I have about $1500 worth NOS Marine Bands from the 60's, 30 custom combs, brand new harps and parts and stuff I can't even remember. I have so much stuff! I have atleast 50 brand new harps sitting in a few different boxes.
I don't plan on become a big well known customizer. I am a harp player first. It's just that over the years I have become very good at setting up harps because I play so much and stock harps won't do what I want them to. So I have learned what to do to make harps play the way I think they should. That's fun for me and I like to share that with other people.
That's also the reason I post on these forums. There are some people out there that want to do work on there harps, but are affaid to. Well if something I post helps one person get through it and they learn how to maintain there harps and become a good harp player than that's great! That's what it's all about!

ElkRiverHarmonicas · « **Reply #25 on:** January 01, 2013, 05:35:29 PM »

Ha! I was going to post those videos that guy David Payne did! but I see you already saw them!

If you keep playing them, it will help keep them from cracking by keeping the wood moist. Sealing combs will not necessarily prevent cracking - it seals moisture out. It also seals moisture in, but it seems like it only slows the cracking and drying process, maybe by years, who knows. but the wood still dries out. I've had quite a few combs come in with cracks for repair only to find when I took them apart that they had been sealed.
I've got some oil that I apply to the comb. I'm anti-oil on the slide, but pro oil on the comb. I put just a little bit, maybe 20 drops applied to the very top. I call it Elk Oil. I mix it one pint of mineral oil - the kind you buy at the pharmacy for greasing your innards - and one DRAM of peppermint oil.
But the important thing is to fix the comb crack with the harmonica assembled. The cracks happen because the comb has become shorter. If you just take it apart and glue it together, you have a shorter comb. You might get it back together, might not.
I don't remember if I was using bamboo splints when I made the video, but that's what I use now. You can get bamboo splints pretty far up in the crack.

David Payne
www.hetrickharmonica.com
www.elkriverharmonicas.com

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Author Topic: Honher 260 in key of C restoration - Cracked wood comb fix! (Read 2581 times)

RONNIE RIDDLE