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Author Topic: The perfect harmonica at a reasonable price  (Read 5538 times)

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Offline gtfossum

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Re: The perfect harmonica at a reasonable price
« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2011, 01:48:51 PM »
Thanks Scotty! Your experience indicates to me that it actually may be a difference in sound, however small. I dear not say that I have very sensitive hearing, but I suspect I might and that small differences in sound that others may not appreciate will be of decisive value to me.

That being said, I've decided to give the Suzuki SCX-48 a chance. I won't sleep well at night if I don't. I have not totally forgotten the Seydel though even though I think my next harmonica may be a Hohner.

Offline Scotty

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Re: The perfect harmonica at a reasonable price
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2011, 03:56:06 PM »
Thanks Scotty! Your experience indicates to me that it actually may be a difference in sound, however small. I dear not say that I have very sensitive hearing, but I suspect I might and that small differences in sound that others may not appreciate will be of decisive value to me.

That being said, I've decided to give the Suzuki SCX-48 a chance. I won't sleep well at night if I don't. I have not totally forgotten the Seydel though even though I think my next harmonica may be a Hohner.


I should tell you that I'm not the only one of my friends to feel the same way about the Suzuki 'sound'. It's been a topic of conversation among several people I know. I initially broached the subject and then slowly, others would carefully add their own experiences. We all have different levels of hearing as well, methinks.

I do need to add, though...that your initial description of 'the perfect harmonica at a reasonable price' might be translated far differently by different people. To MY mind, it meant the average player looking for a 'bargain'. Most harmonica players do not want to spend a lot of money on a single instrument.

When you then allowed $700 - $800 as 'reasonable', I confess I nearly fell of my chair ;)

While I could afford to buy such an instrument, I simply would not since I like to play different keyed instruments within the same line, which would then become exceedingly pricey.

I'd guess that most people who are Slidemeisters and who log in here consider themselves fortunate to be able to spend $100 - $200 (tops) on their dream chromatic (at the high end). It most definitely is all in one's perspective. :D

Now that we understand your definition of 'reasonable', ;) it definitely ups the ante. I'd suggest contacting someone such as Joe Piccirrilli (a Slidemeister here), who custom makes the most stunningly beautiful instruments with all of the bells and whistles one could possibly wish for. I'm sure he could satisfy your needs using an original body by any of the previously named chromatics. It'd be your choice.

The only reason I don't yet own one of his is that I truly do want a CX-'16' in A and B more than anything else (they don't yet exist), and no one is making them after Brendan Power created/customized them in C for a while out of CX-12's (before my time). My other dream chromatic is an original Renny (made by Douglas Tate and Bobbie Giordano), which I think of as an unattainable dream because I simply cannot justify it in my life at this time.

Elizabeth (a/k/a Scotty)
PS: I do own several Super 64's with the Silverplate mouthpieces and find no difference in 'slipperiness' with the 12 hole Seydel Deluxe I previously mentioned. I'm a dry player and do like slick surfaces, ergo my reason for playing the CX-12's. They're perfect for dry players and have amazing tone for the music I play.

Offline gtfossum

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Re: The perfect harmonica at a reasonable price
« Reply #32 on: April 13, 2011, 12:43:36 PM »
Thanks for all the tips, Scotty!

Yes, true, what may be considered a reasonable price may vary. I could have been more specific. Even for me $700-$800 is a little steep. What I meant with reasonable was, I guess, within reach for ordinary people as opposed to the silver concertos and other harmonicas like the Suzuki Fabulous which price belongs to a totally different world from what most ordinary people would even think of spending on a harmonica.

I realize that perhaps most people on this forum plays blues or jazz and it seems to me that silver concertos aren't considered worth while for that kind of playing. I think you really need to be a world class virtuoso to defend spending like $10000 on one harmonica.

I hope I don't offend anyone by this subjective observation. That is not my intention. Just a little reflecting on the different worlds we seem to operate in. To me, as a player of mostly classical music, a silver concerto is the ultimate harmonica (although it may not sound much better than ordinary harmonicas), but way to expensive for my level of playing.

Hmm... I was going to ask what an original Renny was. I just realized, after another search on the net, that you're referring to, I guess, the Renaissance harmonica originally designed by Bobbie Giordano and Douglas Tate? Then you do know what I am talking about!
« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 12:46:38 PM by gtfossum »

Offline Scotty

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Re: The perfect harmonica at a reasonable price
« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2011, 04:13:27 PM »
Thanks for all the tips, Scotty!

Yes, true, what may be considered a reasonable price may vary. I could have been more specific. Even for me $700-$800 is a little steep. What I meant with reasonable was, I guess, within reach for ordinary people as opposed to the silver concertos and other harmonicas like the Suzuki Fabulous which price belongs to a totally different world from what most ordinary people would even think of spending on a harmonica.

I realize that perhaps most people on this forum plays blues or jazz and it seems to me that silver concertos aren't considered worth while for that kind of playing. I think you really need to be a world class virtuoso to defend spending like $10000 on one harmonica.

I hope I don't offend anyone by this subjective observation. That is not my intention. Just a little reflecting on the different worlds we seem to operate in. To me, as a player of mostly classical music, a silver concerto is the ultimate harmonica (although it may not sound much better than ordinary harmonicas), but way to expensive for my level of playing.

Hmm... I was going to ask what an original Renny was. I just realized, after another search on the net, that you're referring to, I guess, the Renaissance harmonica originally designed by Bobbie Giordano and Douglas Tate? Then you do know what I am talking about!

Yes, absolutely. While I'm not a classical player, I am a fan of a few of the top Classical Harmonicists. I do understand wanting an instrument worthy of the music.  IF one can afford the instrument of one's dreams, why not?

No one questions sax or other horn players owning instruments costing a great deal of money. Some violinists spend more on their bows than most of us do on an automobile...or a house. :)

It's simply all in one's perspective, and we ALL have the right to decide for ourselves.

What floats my boat might be a wee bit different from the waves 'neath yours. But we're still sailing on similar seas, as I look at it. ;)

Elizabeth (a/k/a Scotty)  8)

Offline roady43

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Re: The perfect harmonica at a reasonable price
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2012, 02:12:43 PM »
Okay, it may be utopian, but here's the deal: I already have a Hohner Super 64 Chromonica. It has been through a few falling down into the floor or asphalt so it probably needs some servicing to be at its very best again. More importantly I've always found it a little big to control vibrato properly while also controlling the slider. So I'm thinking of buying a 12 hole harmonica as my main instrument and repair the Super 64 and keep as a supplement.

However, I have some requirements:

Silver coated mouthpiece for better saliva flow and thus harmonica easily sliding between lips.
Full (enclosed) cover plates for good volume. This is important since I often play together with others at sing alongs.
Easy reed response. Who wouldn't want that?
I want to be able to produce the clear bell like sound of my fellow countryman Sigmund Groven. I haven't actually tried or heard the Suzukis live, but my impression is that they are a little darker in their tone than Hohner.
I play left handed, so I must be able to rebuild the harmonica to switch the mouthpiece around. Usually, that's not a problem.

In short, a 12 hole Super 64(48) would probably be the ideal. Or even better a  Concert Harmonica Polle with steel covers and a brass comb.

What kind of harmonica is there really that would fit or closely fit my requirements? Or can I put something together that may fit and sound good?

The new Hohner Discovery 48 will be your choice mostlikely...

roady43
Violinist, playing augmented harmonica
Seydel DeLuxe G augmented
Self customized augmented Hohner 260, 270 stainless, Meisterklasse, Chrometta 8 & 10, CX 12 Jazz

Offline Grizzly

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Re: The perfect harmonica at a reasonable price
« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2012, 03:02:42 PM »
gtfossum, you're describing a CX 12 Gold. Unfortunately, they can't be converted to left hand playing. :(

Tom
Famous I don't know about. It's hard to be famous and alive. I just want to play music every day and hear someone say, 'Thanks, that was great, here's some money, same time tomorrow, okay?' -- Terry Pratchett, Soul Music

Offline Renault

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Re: The perfect harmonica at a reasonable price
« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2012, 07:23:00 PM »
What the youtube clip proves is that the sound comes more from the player than the harmonica. Someone else could play the same 7 harmonicas and have all 7 sound alike, but different from the person who played them on the recording. I've come to the conclusion that most of the difference in sound between harmonicas disappears when you are in front of the harmonica, rather than playing it. And once you record the sound, any difference seems to disappear. When we're playing we're looking for a difference in sound between different harps, trying to find the best one. Not surprisingly, because we're looking for a difference we find it, even it it isn't really there. The only chromatic I have that sounds different from the others is the Hohner Super 64. If that's the sound you're going for I don't know if your going to find it in any 12 hole chromatic. And - I looked up the Polle harmonica, since I'd never heard of it before. At $4,500, I'm not surprised that I haven't heard of it. 

Offline charlespaul

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Re: The perfect harmonica at a reasonable price
« Reply #37 on: April 21, 2012, 07:32:43 PM »
For a nice 12-hole horn that accommodates the lefty-- I vote for Hohner Deluxe-- this is a chromatic beginner's recommendation but I think it's great instrument and decently priced.

Charles

Offline roady43

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Re: The perfect harmonica at a reasonable price
« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2012, 03:56:07 AM »
What the youtube clip proves is that the sound comes more from the player than the harmonica. Someone else could play the same 7 harmonicas and have all 7 sound alike, but different from the person who played them on the recording. I've come to the conclusion that most of the difference in sound between harmonicas disappears when you are in front of the harmonica, rather than playing it. And once you record the sound, any difference seems to disappear. When we're playing we're looking for a difference in sound between different harps, trying to find the best one. Not surprisingly, because we're looking for a difference we find it, even it it isn't really there. The only chromatic I have that sounds different from the others is the Hohner Super 64. If that's the sound you're going for I don't know if your going to find it in any 12 hole chromatic. And - I looked up the Polle harmonica, since I'd never heard of it before. At $4,500, I'm not surprised that I haven't heard of it.

Mentioning my harmonica comparison videos here some more detailed information.
On this video I didn't tell who is who; and wouldn't be able to tell myself today (can't find the original recording data anymore):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lhw0H3P4zUE
Nearly only the tuning differences (some are quite out of tune) prove that this is not all played on the same instrument.

In this video one can see which harmonica is played and they are mentioned with all details:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl1QkBD2Fic

There was no Suzuki available at the time to include into the comparison. I have to practise a short melody in solotuning (a SCX 56 is "waiting" here in a drawer), so I could make a new "competition" clip...

roady43
« Last Edit: April 22, 2012, 03:59:33 AM by roady43 »
Violinist, playing augmented harmonica
Seydel DeLuxe G augmented
Self customized augmented Hohner 260, 270 stainless, Meisterklasse, Chrometta 8 & 10, CX 12 Jazz

Offline Ray J

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Re: The perfect harmonica at a reasonable price
« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2012, 04:24:08 AM »


 Yeah Tom

Gold does look classier ;D I have SUPER 64X :D :D

I didn't know much then. But bought my 64X for it's black and gold looks.

Ray  8)
Retired now it's all fun

Offline Renault

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Re: The perfect harmonica at a reasonable price
« Reply #40 on: April 22, 2012, 08:23:48 AM »
One thing that never seems to get addressed is: how much variation in sound is there between two different examples of the same model? That is, my 270 may sound different from your 270.

Offline LJ ATKISON

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Re: The perfect harmonica at a reasonable price
« Reply #41 on: April 22, 2012, 08:28:32 AM »
THE SOUND DIFFERENCE IS YOU.  EVERY BODIES MOUTH CHAMBER IS DIFFERENT AND DOES ONE BREATH INTO THE HARP OR BLOW.  MANY FACTORS.

LJ
"CAN DO"   THE DIFFICULT WE'LL DO NOW. THE IMPOSSIBLE JUST TAKES A LITTLE LONGER.

Offline roady43

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Re: The perfect harmonica at a reasonable price
« Reply #42 on: April 22, 2012, 03:27:34 PM »
One thing that never seems to get addressed is: how much variation in sound is there between two different examples of the same model? That is, my 270 may sound different from your 270.

Absolutely agree. So with LJ. I'm quite sure that on a Suzuki I would sound very similar. The ideal of my sound in my head influences my playing. The sounding result for the audience still might quite differ from my ideal. But for my inspiration and artistic intentions it still helps to try to reach my own "ideal" sound.

roady43
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Seydel DeLuxe G augmented
Self customized augmented Hohner 260, 270 stainless, Meisterklasse, Chrometta 8 & 10, CX 12 Jazz

Offline Al Kai

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Re: The perfect harmonica at a reasonable price
« Reply #43 on: April 22, 2012, 08:15:30 PM »
Thanks Scotty! Your experience indicates to me that it actually may be a difference in sound, however small. I dear not say that I have very sensitive hearing, but I suspect I might and that small differences in sound that others may not appreciate will be of decisive value to me.

That being said, I've decided to give the Suzuki SCX-48 a chance. I won't sleep well at night if I don't. I have not totally forgotten the Seydel though even though I think my next harmonica may be a Hohner.

Excellent choice!, I was about to suggest that.

Offline Al Kai

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Re: The perfect harmonica at a reasonable price
« Reply #44 on: April 22, 2012, 08:17:36 PM »
What the youtube clip proves is that the sound comes more from the player than the harmonica. Someone else could play the same 7 harmonicas and have all 7 sound alike, but different from the person who played them on the recording. I've come to the conclusion that most of the difference in sound between harmonicas disappears when you are in front of the harmonica, rather than playing it. And once you record the sound, any difference seems to disappear. When we're playing we're looking for a difference in sound between different harps, trying to find the best one. Not surprisingly, because we're looking for a difference we find it, even it it isn't really there. The only chromatic I have that sounds different from the others is the Hohner Super 64. If that's the sound you're going for I don't know if your going to find it in any 12 hole chromatic. And - I looked up the Polle harmonica, since I'd never heard of it before. At $4,500, I'm not surprised that I haven't heard of it.

I agree.

Offline gtfossum

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Re: The perfect harmonica at a reasonable price
« Reply #45 on: April 26, 2012, 03:52:31 AM »

The new Hohner Discovery 48 will be your choice mostlikely...

roady43

Yes, definitely, with some modifications as I have already described in this thread: http://www.slidemeister.com/forums/index.php?topic=6764.msg79844#msg79844

Offline gtfossum

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Re: The perfect harmonica at a reasonable price
« Reply #46 on: April 26, 2012, 04:02:14 AM »
gtfossum, you're describing a CX 12 Gold. Unfortunately, they can't be converted to left hand playing. :(

Tom

I've never liked the concept, but, yes, I realize that the CX-12 is close to what I'm describing. Unfortunately the CX-12 is a little too modern for my taste. I'm sure they are excellent instruments, I just don't like their look. I'm alowing myselv to be a little vain about this. Also the full covers is probably more about looks than sound. I want a harmonica that looks good. It makes me feel serious or just good about my selv. Boosts my self-esteem. Funny!

If I ever learn playing right handed may be I should try the CX-12? Or may be I should just do the impossible and rebuild it for left hand use? I did that with the SCX-48, although that wasn't really impossible. Far from it.

Offline rusty

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Re: The perfect harmonica at a reasonable price
« Reply #47 on: April 26, 2012, 04:59:49 AM »
My two cents.....

I personally dislike silver mouth pieces. I have several Sirius's and an SCX and prefer the non silver SCX by a long shot. Silver gets sticky quickly in my case. I don't know why. It also wears quickly. Perhaps it is just my chemistry?

I have a Meisterklasse and if I was to compare the tone to the Suzuki's, well get out the fire extinguisher. I prefer the tone of the Suzuki's when played acoustically, Clearer bell like tone and far nicer in the higher range. Better projection too. The Hohner has a more powerful low end it's true but it's high end is thin IMO.......HOWEVER (don't burn me yet please) I have to say that under a mic nothing beats the Meisterklasse except possably the even more expensive Amadeus or Silver Concerto (I never played the Silver and not the Amadeus on a mic). I would note that if your playing country music the Hohner does have a bit more "twang" in the tone and will blend better when playing background stuff. I also prefer the Meisterklasse mouthpiece

My suggestion
 
if you mostly going to play dry (no mic) then go Sirius 48 or 56 (better tone then the SCX out of the box)
if you play with a mic, it matters less but I still find that Meisterklasse so amazing

With so many good instruments are available these days, dont sweat this to much. Its the player not the instrument for the most part.

Related info, I use my SCX48 as my go anyplace everyday harmonica. It's built like a tank and sounds respectable in every situation. Mine has been tuned Bebop Orchestral and is a joy
Music sooths the savage beast...